You must all be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to get angry. JAMES 1:19 NLT
Spatial was NOT part of the original plan, it was added later when it was actually available as a brand new tech, and ended up creating bigger issues than it solved.
edit apologies for not providing the link originally - single parenting at the time - you can read the original announcement here
To help my friend here clarify a bit...
Caspian was in Discord yesterday and someone asked him about back end development and the scaleability of Docker Swarm. They got into a long discussion and Caspian mentioned he was personally doing a bunch of research and development lately about which languages would be best for the company moving forward including topics like scaleability, familiarity, costs, training, such and such.
I'm not sure if "big shift in development" is quite accurate as it sounds like Caspian just wants to make sure the platform is scaleable and efficient and I wouldn't expect this to hinder potential player testing access this year as scaleability shouldn't matter until we get into more complex testing like KoE.
If you all are curious about the full context of the convo I'd suggest hitting up discord and searching for caspian posts, it's the last thing he discussed and for people who understand the jargon it seemed to me like he went into a good bit of depth.
Posted By Sanguinesh_Blackwind at 12:50 PM - Sat Feb 08 2020
Spatial was NOT part of the original plan, it was added later when it was actually available as a brand new tech, and ended up creating bigger issues than it solved.
Insightful, so this would be the fourth design, not the third?
I should note, due to the changing technologies companies face, switching to new tools is very common, CU is just wrapping up their Linux conversion which was a major focus for 2019. SC did the same a few years back when they did a major upgrade in order to better handle scalability of larger player numbers.
You must all be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to get angry. JAMES 1:19 NLT
I admit it is tough to gauge what progress is actually happening when it seems like at least once a year there is some major shift in tech, methodology, goals, plans, etc.
I am not saying that in an effort to deride the studio - I understand that a lot of this is simply how things progress.
However, it would be nice if we got some context for the overall impact on development, so we avoid the appearance of "two steps forward, three steps back".
I consider myself fairly well-informed regarding what SBS has shared over the years. Despite that, if someone were to ask me where CoE is in development (which they have), my honest answer is "no idea".
Over time, they have shared what testing phase is supposed to include what features, where they supposedly are with those features, what is needed to enter a certain phase, etc.
Yet, despite that, it seems like every time they night be getting close to hitting previously mentioned milestones, suddenly they are taking a new approach, shifting the goal posts, or revamping their process.
This makes it VERY difficult to actually be aware of what the heck is going on, and how they are making actual forward progress.
I hope the upcoming StoE will shed some light, but even then I worry it will be more of the same, where they give a status update, and then six months later, re-invent the wheel again.
tl;dr
I have no idea what is actually going on, where they are in the overall dev timeline, what is done and what isn't, etc.
In other words, I feel like I know less about CoEs development than I did 2 years ago.
Hopefully, that changes soon.
Posted By Kyleran at 12:52 PM - Sat Feb 08 2020
Posted By Sanguinesh_Blackwind at 12:50 PM - Sat Feb 08 2020
Spatial was NOT part of the original plan, it was added later when it was actually available as a brand new tech, and ended up creating bigger issues than it solved.
Insightful, so this would be the fourth design, not the third?
I should note, due to the changing technologies companies face, switching to new tools is very common, CU is just wrapping up their Linux conversion which was a major focus for 2019. SC did the same a few years back when they did a major upgrade in order to better handle scalability of larger player numbers.
If I recall correctly, SBS announced the SpatialOS partnership early in the Kickstarter campaign with much ballyhoo. I assumed it was always what they planned to use as it was framed as being a really big deal at the time.
It's always dangerous to hitch your wagon to unproven technology and if stuff doesn't work like you hope there isn't much else to do but start over with something else. Personally, everything you listed is jibberish to me and I wouldn't know what was better than the other.
I guess the question at hand is really around whether this causes additional delays? I know we originally talked about a 2017 launch, then 2019. Now unofficial scuttlebutt was around 2021 but if they are changing all this stuff again I wonder how much more that gets pushed. There comes a point where I think you legitimately have to talk about descoping some stuff in order to ship a product. Folks picked their land last year. By the time 2022 comes how many people will still be happy in the same county, dutchy, kingdom? Heck, how many of those spots will just lie empty as people moved on?
Me personally, I'm willing to give it to next year, but honestly, my interest comes and goes.
Shame things haven't worked out with their earlier design choices, but I'd rather them do this now than later on.
"Major development changes being considered for 2020"?
Wow, you MUST be bored already this weekend. These were a handful of nice tech questions asked by someone in Discord at the end of an exchange (all good) and Caspian (re)offered up some details (also all good). I'm not sure any (or much) of that was actually news.
But none of that represents anything remotely like the Breaking News drama that your title promises.
I know you can't access any of this information first hand, for your own reasons, and affirmatively choose not to back the game, but you seem to think that you're the town crier or something. If you want that job -- OK -- but you'll have to try a bit harder to characterize things fairly.
Your lack of first-handedness keeps leading you to recast things oddly. I'll give you that benefit of doubt, trying to be polite -- although anyone who's seen you post on other web sites about the game knows how you REALLY feel about it and the studio. ;)
Cheers!
Posted By Zyzax at 2:22 PM - Sat Feb 08 2020
"Major development changes being considered for 2020"?
Wow, you MUST be bored already this weekend. These were a handful of nice tech questions asked by someone in Discord at the end of an exchange (all good) and Caspian (re)offered up some details (also all good). I'm not sure any (or much) of that was actually news.
But none of that represents anything remotely like the Breaking News drama that your title promises.
I know you can't access any of this information first hand, for your own reasons, and affirmatively choose not to back the game, but you seem to think that you're the town crier or something. If you want that job -- OK -- but you'll have to try a bit harder to characterize things fairly.
Your lack of first-handedness keeps leading you to recast things oddly. I'll give you that benefit of doubt, trying to be polite -- although anyone who's seen you post on other web sites about the game knows how you REALLY feel about it and the studio. ;)
Cheers!
Outside of the title which seems to have offended you and others, the information presented in the OP was simple statements of fact based on what Caspian shared.
My recasting was as neutral as possible which I only do because of the "rule" not to directly quote commentary from other sources here in the forums.
We'll have to disagree whether this is "breaking news or not." While I am only an armchair game developer, I actually have been delivering software for 30 years and understand the changes being considered are not insignificant.
Caspian said he is reconsidering most of the alternate designs put in place back in 2018 and replacing them with new tools, you and others say no big deal, I think it is, but note, I offered no opinion in the OP regarding any potential impact or effect.
What you seem to be doing is casting me in a troll light based on previous actions elsewhere and take issue with my lack of financial commitment, as if it somehow invalidates the factual information I have tried to share.
As for being the town-crier, yes, I enjoy re-sharing information of interest (to me) from other sources which folks who don't frequent them would never be aware of considering how seldom the SBS staff posts here. (unless one sends them gifts of course)
Some folks have thanked me for doing this, so expect it to continue despite the passive aggressive insults / downvotes.
We who live under the bridge sort of thrive on them.
You must all be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to get angry. JAMES 1:19 NLT
Come on all, he is just sharing what Caspian said in Discord - barring the title, it's a fairly objective recap.
Asking questions, discussing, sharing views isn't trolling, attacking the studio, or stirring up drama.
Can we please stop painting it as such.
@ Kyleran for someone that has claimed no investment in this project, nor interest in being part of it ... you certainly spend an awful lot of time following every bit of it you can. Why not enlighten everyone as to what fuels this burning obsession you have? I bet it is only to get you atta-boys and cred in that other turd forum where you have attained credibility by mastering the echo chamber mentality of people who don't really think for themselves,
Has SbS changed directions on their builds and tools - yep
Does is raise legitimate concerns - certainly
Are these brilliant insights you bring to us things that members of our community do not - not at all, we bitch about everything
As I said once before, you have nothing invested here - not in the game, not in the community, you are only here for the reasons I stated above, you need to generate buzz around yourself so you can take it back to the turd forum you live in and make yourself feel good.
I never said money was required to join the community, only an honest desire to be a part of it and to build it up to the highest level we can - you want none of that. There's some transparency for ya.
Posted By Marovec at 11:55 AM - Sat Feb 08 2020
barring the title, it's a fairly objective recap.
Asking questions, discussing, sharing views isn't trolling, attacking the studio, or stirring up drama.
My criticism was of his click-bait title, and the fact that most of it wasn't actually new news. I think that was fair, and not impolite.
And he's the one who regularly describes himself as "living under the bridge".
Cheers!
Posted By Sanguinesh_Blackwind at 12:50 PM - Sat Feb 08 2020
Spatial was NOT part of the original plan, it was added later when it was actually available as a brand new tech, and ended up creating bigger issues than it solved.
edit apologies for not providing the link originally - single parenting at the time - you can read the original announcement
Yeah I was remembering this one from the Kickstarter *
Caspian says in that post that this stuff is what takes the most time when building a game. As I said, I wouldn't know a Rabbit or Docker from a pair of pants. I just was curious about the impact of switching this stuff up again. To a totally uninformed person just going off the links it would seem that this stuff takes a long time. I really hope that's not the case and they go with Speed to Market as Caspian said in one of his Discords.
It sounds like they are replacing the replacement for SpatialOS. Is that not a big development change? Is it fairly easy to convert from whatever their current stuff is written in over to these new programs? I need the programming for dummies explanation.
*Could not post link but it is Kickstarter Update #29
Posted By Drudge at 4:03 PM - Sat Feb 08 2020
Yeah I was remembering this one from the Kickstarter *
*Could not post link but it is Kickstarter Update #29
Yeah, I was just pointing out it wasn't original to the initial KS, but added later when it became viable tech - I should've included the original post at first so apologies
Posted By Zyzax at 3:07 PM - Sat Feb 08 2020
Posted By Marovec at 11:55 AM - Sat Feb 08 2020
barring the title, it's a fairly objective recap.
Asking questions, discussing, sharing views isn't trolling, attacking the studio, or stirring up drama.
My criticism was of his click-bait title, and the fact that most of it wasn't actually new news. I think that was fair, and not impolite.
And he's the one who regularly describes himself as "living under the bridge".
Cheers!
Fair enough.
I don't mind the recaps here...not everyone checks the discord, and they don't exactly come here to make those comments.
This stuff should already be sorted out before asking for any money.
