Might makes right.

Posted By Kelson at 11:36 AM - Tue Mar 17 2020

Are you basically trying to enshrine a right to ethnic cleansing?

No simple to recognise our right as members of the Luna continent to discover, conquer the world.

I am pretty sure this ignores the fact that just because we discover a continent that is new to US, doesn't mean there won't already be NPC tribes and domains and duchies - with their own relevant laws and CB mechanics.

Basically, if a player led domain discovers a new continent, and wants to take it over, they will be subject to the same domain acquisition mechanics that will exist on the "mainland".

How people choose to interact with, or conquer, the existing established tribes, with their pre-existing societies, is probably going to be a HUGE gameplay turning point and source of conflict.

Trying to somehow "standardize" how an entire server will approach the "discovery of the new world" seems a bit...naive.

We have no "rights" as a Luna continent to do anything on newly discovered lands, beyond what is allowed in the game mechanics, and what we choose to accept the consequences for.

Fairly certain that established NPC societies aren't just going to sit there and freely give up their domains, regardless of what "right" you give to players to "clear them from the land".

Still, all in all, entertaining read in these trying times.

Sure it's a great idea but how do you plan to enforce it? I mean I hear of talk about wars and leadership having problems enforcing rules in my own Duchy already. How do you plan to enforce these articles on lands not yet discovered? Discovered by various kingdoms with different philosophies. What if only two kingdoms sign the treaty? What if they sign the treaty but don't aide by the rules? Then there will be pirates and rogue states vieing for the same lands. What if me as a Count send my own exploration party to lands and claim them as my own and pay no attention to the treaty? What if a dude on a raft discovers these lands all on his own? What if another member from your own Kingdom/duchy/county comes along and tries to take the land you discovered first? Will you be able to go to war against someone who breaks the treaty? Would it even be worth it to?

I notice your only rank 4. This would have a little more weight coming from a Duke or King. No insult intended but coming from you the first thing I think is you can't even convince your own leadership to agree to this.

In short, I just don't see how something like this will ever be enforced. I see huge battles being fought over these new lands because everyone loves pvp and this will be like the wild west.

People have a lot of great ideas that are just plain not practical in the real world.

Also...is this the right time for an "ok, colonizer" comment?

Small exploration vessel funded by a struggling minor Count discovered an island with a few primitive inhabitants and vast natural resources

Neighbouring Emperor of a multi-kingdom domain with vast armies, fleets and resources at his disposal

"Send forth the armies! Wai- hang on a moment, there was that one post on the forums back in '20 that said finders' keepers. Recall the forces!"

Pretty sure there’s already mechanics for this. Soooo.

it's not "ethnic cleansing" that sounds bad, its manifest destiny

First the Articles OP is saying is loosely based on the Era of colonization, and the enforcement of such articles would be enforced automatically for various reason, one being that it is in the interests of nations to not wage war against the other, for another subtopic of reasons to this reason. This is between nations only.

Another to point out is that the OP said that the discovered land would belong to the explorer or group of explorers. That will never fly. You will have essentially declared war to every nation out there. Ponce de Leon, Chrisptopher Columbus, Amerchano (the guy they name America after I forgot how to spell his name) all claimed the territories they found in the name of the Kingdom. Yes you did put in County, duchy, and Kingdom, but when you put in "claims for the lower people" (person, group) without the backing of a kingdom meaning they are not colonizers that becomes a problem.

Secondly if the natives of the new world is incapable of keeping their land, and the invading nations have the power to take the land then all you can do is whine about it and nothing more. In this case it is being objective rather than subjective. Meaning the conclusion is more important rather than the judgement of the situation.

Thirdly there are already mechanics for this as quoted from several people above.

And going back to the second point, if you are incapable of making yourself great, then another person capable of being great will take it from you. I think that this is a natural thing.

If you do not have the power to hold the land you claimed, either by personal power, or by the backing of a nation then you do not have the right to do as you please with the land. Just because you say it's your land doesn't mean it's your land. Saying is different to doing and being.

All in all the only way a portion of this is going to fly is if nations are personally invested in this.

Any rules made have to be enforced. Anyone breaking these articles won’t suffer consequences as people won’t care enough to enforce the rules.

So an article that benefits everybody is more likely to be enforced. An example could be to ensure no one group has a monopoly on a resource. That healthy competition increases the chances of prosperity spreading therefore less need for war, if that’s the goal.

These articles will either help or hinder those it’s enforced upon while hurting or benefiting the majority. First establish a goal, such as avoiding war, ensuring no one group of settlers becomes too powerful, etc then create articles that achieve that goal

I´ll give it a +1 for the effort.

Was looking good until I got to Article IV.

heh - i didn't get past article I before knowing it wouldn't work

though i believe the intent behind it is well meant just article I would never be kept because:

(a) it favors the group/kingdom that first develops ships capable of exploration and said group could go around and 'tag' every island - i don't think the 3-5 other kingdoms would just say"oh that's ok"

(b) it defies the very nature of what a sandbox is about

(c) colonization in real life were some of the most brutal and oppressive periods in history. In order for that to not be replicated in game you would need to change the nature of mankind - not seeing that happen anytime soon