24 December

Settlers of Elyria Update

By AshKain

Greetings and Salutations Elyrians,

I wanted to take a couple minutes to address Settlers of Elyria, to thank you for your continued patience, and to bring you all in on our plan moving forward.

First, let me address what we are doing right now. Presently we are working on bringing the Domains portal back online. However, Settlers of Elyria will be suspended, meaning purchasing will be disabled, along with the flash sales and progressive discount, but you'll be able to view the current prices and ownership.

Second, we are working to resolve the issues we uncovered, as well as build new unit tests to find any other bugs we might have missed or introduced. Yet, with just hours before the holidays there is insufficient time for us to do the necessary work in a way that respects the team's need for time off, and you, our community's, time during the holidays. This means we won’t be putting this plan into action until after the break. This means you'll be getting an update on our current status and progress after the new year.

Third, once we have addressed the root cause of the issues, and not the symptoms, we’ll be announcing a date for our relaunch of the event. We’re listening to your feedback and want to provide you - our incredible, passionate, dedicated community - ample notice.

Finally, let me take a moment to talk about what all this means for the event. While we are suspending the event in full, we won't be rolling back any successful sales for those players that managed to make a claim. When the event resumes, NPC claims will be reset, there will be new Flash Sales, and progressive discount prices will begin counting down at -3%.

From everyone here, I just want to wish you all a happy and safe holiday. We hope you get a chance to spend some quality time with your friends and loved ones. And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, thank you guys for your support. Having you cheering us on is what keeps us going every day, no joke.

It’s been an interesting first week on the job.

-Kain

Discuss

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Malais - 1 month ago

@ AshKain

It is great to see sbs owning their mistakes and instead of trying to use flair to cover them up or to whitewash the situation for someone to say “proof is in the work”. I hope you are able to get the out of game experiences organized and streamlined since without an actual game they are being received as proof of concept of sbs as a studio and their ability to actually deliver.

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

Having everything easy in one place. ^.^ you’re free to not like it if you please. I prefer to see what suggestion has been put forward and be able to discuss with individuals about that as well as see all the bugs that have been found and reported in one area rather than attempting to use the broken search function or manually searching through posts to see what has and hasn’t been reported.

Not only that. But the amount of posts that there are with various suggestions and most the time the same suggestions over multiple posts are hard to keep track of and most the time delve into something else or die out/get lost. Then you’re trying again to use the broken search function to no avail.

My post helps make it all in one place and highlight those suggestions and bugs that have been reported making it easier for users and for the devs

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

If you guys have suggestions and stuff be sure to post it on my suggestions/bug post :3

Sanguinesh_Blackwind - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 10:02 PM - Sun Jan 12 2020

If you guys have suggestions and stuff be sure to post it on my suggestions/bug post :3

Seeing as both the discord and the forum have an official means of reporting bugs, and suggestions are largely ignored until after the point they would've been helpful - wtf do we need your post for?

Pendulum - 1 month ago

Posted By Dleatherus at 11:21 AM - Mon Jan 13 2020

patience for a game's development timeline i have plenty of, having been a part of many a prelaunch community during my 20+ year 'career' following and playing mmo's

what i don't have tolerance for is intentional, repetitive and misleading overpromising and underdelivering when in looking back it is very clear in many cases that there was no possibility for the studio to deliver on its expectations (note that it is not the players who had high expectations, it is the studio that set those high expectations themselves), yet those expectations were allowed to be the current state of where we were in development until sometimes just a day or two away from the launch or reveal of a particular step

I really appreciate this point. The community has been receiving an increased amount of blame of late, due to "it's" reactions to the conduct of the Studio. In reality, to those who still have their ability to reason and not fall on one wild side of the spectrum, this is all a result of over hype and failed deliveries. This is no longer a simple point about "No dates!" this is a point about ethics and conduct and whether it should be acceptable to string people along for months at a time. So far, on just DSS, it's been over half a year of us waiting for the pen to drop. This is extremely unhealthy for both the Studio and it's supportive following. They must have known it would take longer than their suggestions, but they choose a questionable route that seems to be heavily favouring marketing, even if it damages their biggest fans.

Huldra Draco - 1 month ago

Keeping fingers crossed for a speedy fix and successful re launch!

Sawahya - 1 month ago

Posted By Corvinusx at 2:44 PM - Wed Jan 08 2020

What is the discord

https://discord.gg/chroniclesofelyria

Corvinusx - 1 month ago

What is the discord

Zardozian - 1 month ago

Scope creep definitely seems to be a problem with this team.

A developer was in the discord the other day and people were shouting out the silliest ideas with the developer saying 'great idea, let me jot that down'.

I hope they were kidding and, if not, I hope it's at least being added as a low priority in their backlog.

They say they use an agile methodology, but it seems like they are very poor at refining. I presume a lot of their cards roll over each sprint because they either have too little acceptance criteria or they change the ACs mid-sprint.

Marovec - 1 month ago

@Takeda

The irony there is that they have always talked about how their development approach revolves around breadth over depth - develop enough in one system to know it works, then move to the next.

Like I have said, nothing they do seems to align with what they say, at least not in any way that is clear to me.

Marovec - 1 month ago

@Abigor

Fair points, and as for your last question...

I have no idea. I guess it's all an attempt to try and wrap my head around their approach.

Dominus Satanus - 1 month ago

Most people in the process complain, despair, and quit. Those who have faith and iron will continue.

Keep up the hard and fantastic job! Our community has faith in you!

May the deities of glory and grandeur bless your work and your vision!

Zardozian - 1 month ago

Maybe show them that a lot of people have drank their delicious kool-aid and are willing to drop boatloads of money for virtual goods and virtual lands in a game that may or may not get released?

Abigor - 1 month ago

SBS is still trying to get investors. Not having investors is a pretty big handicap, and it's a tough sell to investors when it comes to showing the ultimate return on investment with a game like this - especially given their stated restrictions on monetization.

I agree, not having investors is quite a big issue for SBS, and would be for any company, however...

So, in order to put the "best foot forward" for investors, they HAVE to keep a positive spin on everything.

Well...as Logain already said, investors won't just look at forums or discord, see how no-one is complaining, things are active and invest. Investors will most likely look into things like how much progress SBS made with their own funding, how much they have left as well as overall situation and opinion of company and game.

SBS not wanting to be fully transparent and not share every bad thing that happens is fully understandable, but it's mostly done for us, since we're the only ones supporting the game so far. If they would say how bad things are everyone would just drop support. But still, if any serious investor will come along, they will most likely ask for much more than what is being presented for general public before he invests in the studio.

However another thing that a bit worries me and may be offtopic - what can they show investors atm that they are afraid to show us and will convince people to invest?

Takeda_Shinukage - 1 month ago
@Abigor:

Posted By Abigor at 12:42 PM - Tue Jan 07 2020

However another thing that a bit worries me and may be offtopic - what can they show investors atm that they are afraid to show us and will convince people to invest?

I think part of the problem is the studio appears to get lost in the weeds when developing their game and design leading to alot of work being done but nothing to see. A quick example is all this work they have been putting into parkour features. I feel like I have heard them say they are working on parkour for a while now. But why though? All I need base to play the game is walk/run and maybe a crouch. Parkour is definitely an post-preAlpha feature imo and that's how alot of games with parkour that have had early access that ive played do it. Parkour is almost never on alpha release. It's just not a required feature for that phase of the game.

You can really see this pattern whenever they talk about what they are working on, it always seem to be some super in-depth specific thing when I'm just thinking "Yeah but if you just did the first part and did the rest later you would have a playable world right now".

I mean this can also be seen with DSS, their only real coe feature release. It went from a pretty simple premise to "I want it to be this this this and do this this this" and it got delayed for over a year because of it. Then what happened to the reverse auction for settlers? A simple concept but then we gotta add this this this to it and bam. Doesn't work anymore.

Back to CoE in general, They definitely prefer depth > breadth and the downside to that style of development is you often just don't have that much to show because you spend so much time on each slice that the pie isn't presentable for a long time.

TheCoz - 1 month ago

If you want the game to release simply shutup and give them money every now and then. Eventually they will get er done and it will be great.

RedDoggybone - 1 month ago
@TheCoz:

Posted By TheCoz at 10:47 AM - Tue Jan 07 2020

If you want the game to release simply shutup and give them money every now and then. Eventually they will get er done and it will be great.

Make COE great again. Sounds catchy

Gunnlang - 1 month ago
@TheCoz:

Posted By TheCoz at 02:47 AM - Wed Jan 08 2020

If you want the game to release simply shutup and give them money every now and then. Eventually they will get er done and it will be great.

How about they give me something, like Pre-Elyria/Alpha 1. Then I will give them more money.

Marovec - 1 month ago

I am surprising myself a bit with this comment, but I think it's a reality we all need to face (myself included).

SBS is still trying to get investors. Not having investors is a pretty big handicap, and it's a tough sell to investors when it comes to showing the ultimate return on investment with a game like this - especially given their stated restrictions on monetization.

So, in order to put the "best foot forward" for investors, they HAVE to keep a positive spin on everything. They have to downplay the bad, and hype up the potential positives. They have to present the impression that things are under control, and the plan is largely on track.

The problem there is that maintaining that image for the investors may not always coincide with full transparency to us, the backers following development.

It's a pretty big grey area between misrepresentation and "sales".

As much as I want the "real story" and full disclosure, it may be something we will never be able to have.

Now, to clarify, I don't think that means there aren't things they could be doing far better in terms of communication (I think I have made that abundantly clear). I just wanted to point out that there are inherent limitations to how "honest" they can be.

How much that reason is used as a "cop out" or excuse not to share is something we will never know, but we should still keep that limitation in mind.

Sirlawrence - 1 month ago
@Marovec:

Posted By Marovec at 07:09 AM - Tue Jan 07 2020 That’s why I don’t spend my money anymore. Just in case I wore to get screwed by soe but hoping the best still have a little faith in soe.

I am surprising myself a bit with this comment, but I think it's a reality we all need to face (myself included).

SBS is still trying to get investors. Not having investors is a pretty big handicap, and it's a tough sell to investors when it comes to showing the ultimate return on investment with a game like this - especially given their stated restrictions on monetization.

So, in order to put the "best foot forward" for investors, they HAVE to keep a positive spin on everything. They have to downplay the bad, and hype up the potential positives. They have to present the impression that things are under control, and the plan is largely on track.

The problem there is that maintaining that image for the investors may not always coincide with full transparency to us, the backers following development.

It's a pretty big grey area between misrepresentation and "sales".

As much as I want the "real story" and full disclosure, it may be something we will never be able to have.

Now, to clarify, I don't think that means there aren't things they could be doing far better in terms of communication (I think I have made that abundantly clear). I just wanted to point out that there are inherent limitations to how "honest" they can be.

How much that reason is used as a "cop out" or excuse not to share is something we will never know, but we should still keep that limitation in mind.

Logain - 1 month ago
@Marovec:

Posted By Sparrow at 10:47 AM - Tue Jan 07 2020

(...)I think you do not recognize what amount of work was already behind this milestone(...). The procedural generated world, that will be part of the game play had to be made for D&SS to happen(...)

While I agree that procedural world generation was a considerably resource intense task, I think most people differ on their stance on the actual level of progress. We know they had a height map at a 4m² resolution and a rough resource distribution, but that's about it. We do not know if they included transitional biomes by now, we do not know if they enhanced resolution down to 1/64th m², we do not know if they have all 7 layers of terrain (including structures) generated. What I'd love to see is the actual current level of progress on map generation (for the test map) in the upcoming State of Elyria posting. Not as a description, but, depending on the progress, either the height and heat maps, or a little 2-4 hours fly over video. That way people would have a solid grasp and ground for further discussion.

Posted By Sparrow at 10:47 AM - Tue Jan 07 2020

(...)How would you imagine playing the game without a map? As you can play as a count / duke / king, D&SS is a key feature to select your domain(...)

I think the misunderstanding here is that the current UI for D&SS is not going to be used later on in game. The data had to be generated, but you could have used the in-game UI.

Posted By Marovec at 2:09 PM - Tue Jan 07 2020

(...)it's a tough sell to investors when it comes to showing the ultimate return on investment with a game like this (...) for investors, they HAVE to keep a positive spin on everything(...)

Do you really think a serious investor is going to risk several million dollar without asking to see the current assets in advance? And I wholeheartedly agree with you that trying to find an investor for the project is likely a nightmare because of intense maintenance cost with rather tight monetization.

Melkar - 1 month ago

Lol it does not matter if Red understands/like the PE client.

Most people simply don't care what it does or the purpose it serves. It looks like complete ass to most people like some kind of planes of power throwback from circa 2002.

You should hear the laughter from my friends when I show them the PE stuff. Or how they just trash it. They dont care, all they want to see is the UE4 stuff or they just write it off since the games been in development and all they have to really show for it was some cool pax demos YEARS ago and then for the past two years we get is a Planes of Power clone.

When only a small segment fraction of the population will experience the PE client and cant even talk about it's merits and systems during alpha due to the NDA. It really serves no purpose or does CoE any favors to show it off if they have any capacity to toggle on UE4 graphics or show it side by side.

RedDoggybone - 1 month ago

There is also another thing they do that concerns me. Ever notice how they spend exuberant amounts of time and resources on side projects to the actual game? It worries me that the side projects are much simpler to make than the actual game and they are having so much trouble making the side projects work.

Sure the maps are cool and all but to be honest did we need all that to pick our locations? Also, the maps we got were not the maps we were promised. They were dumbed down at the last moment and they still missed getting them out on time by months. It actually felt like to me that they didn't start working on the maps at all until after or just before the original release date.

The elaborate sales and contests and events they have. It's a small team working on this game. I don't care what any one says working on these events has to be taking time and resources away from the game. And if they are not, what are these people who work on the events doing when their is no event to work on? And to be honest, the maps were part of an elaborate event to raise money and probably a big reason they did make them so much more over the top than they needed to be. You supporters can't be crying about them having a small team then support them using the limited resources they do have on the events they do. Of course the amount of effort they put into the events help bring in more money but at some point it starts to look like they are putting more effort into raising money than working on the game.

How they are continually as surprised as we are a release dosn't work on release.

They can't even release their money making events without a glitch. Which by the way can you name one thing they did release that we can actually interact with that wasn't somehow related to raising money?

They keep saying they are looking at investors yet that never seems to happen. I have been hearing this about the investors since I have been here. To me the reason is obvious. They don't have anything viable to show them.

That whole deal with Spatial OS has always seemed so odd to me. One second Caspian has a deal to use it to make the game AND to help port Spatial to the UNREAL engine. Then poof, just like that, no more deal. All he did was talk about how much faster Spatial would make the game development. Then when the deal fell through, "oh Spatial was no big deal. We can still get the game done on time without it." And here we are what 4 years later and we still have nothing.

Thats when it first really occurred to me I was having smoke blown up my butt. Either Spatial was super important or it wasn't. You can't have it both ways. He was either over hyping Spatial as to COE or undervaluing it when he lost the deal. Then you just start to notice things they say and some inconsistencies between what was said before and what is said now.

OK, this next part is just a strong suspicion on my part. I am not accusing COE of doing this but I suspect they are. You guys have to make up your own minds. But it is a big reason I have lost trust in what they tell me. For some this may be no big deal and thats cool. Just judge for yourselves.

I have a program called Daz 3d. Google it. It's widely used all over. This program allows me to make pictures and videos similar to the quality of my avatar and much better as I am no artist. Lets just say the early promo videos and screenshots of COE look suspiciously similar to many of the things I can make with the Daz program. That whole video about walking in increasing snowfall too looks like it was made with Daz. I have a add on that looks just like the early castle pictures shown in the media section here. COE Castle You can change the colors by using shaders and different lighting. This just looks super similar to me to the early media things here. And the characters look strikingly similar to the ones available for Daz. Just go to their main store page and look.

If the early screenshots and videos were made with Daz I feel it's misleading to NOT put them under the conceptual tittle because if they were made with Daz the developers didn't actually make it for this game. The Daz developers did and COE just used the Daz program to show us what they want the game to look like conceptually. I know I for one saw those screenshots and videos and was very impressed by them because I thought it was something the COE developers had made from scratch. Now that I have the Daz program and am making my own scenes and yes finally animations, lets just say I am less impressed and am now worried the game will look NOTHING at all like the original media footage but more similar to the "shiny" footage we get. And this fully explains why the screenshots and videos look as if they have gotten worse over the years. They are now actually making them themselves and not using Daz as I suspect they did previously.

Now IF the early screen shots and possibly the screenshots of what the races will look like are made with Daz and not actually the developers, don't you ask yourself what-else are the developers stretching the truth with?

So you see with me it is not just that they are so slow making things. It's all this other stuff and more that makes me worry. It's the ever increasing feeling we are being misled on some core game elements.

Sparrow - 1 month ago
@RedDoggybone:

Posted By RedDoggybone at 09:33 AM - Tue Jan 07 2020

There is also another thing they do that concerns me. Ever notice how they spend exuberant amounts of time and resources on side projects to the actual game? It worries me that the side projects are much simpler to make than the actual game and they are having so much trouble making the side projects work.

Sure the maps are cool and all but to be honest did we need all that to pick our locations? Also, the maps we got were not the maps we were promised. They were dumbed down at the last moment and they still missed getting them out on time by months. It actually felt like to me that they didn't start working on the maps at all until after or just before the original release date.

Sorry, but I think you do not recognize what amount of work was already behind this milestone. (It's not a side project). The procedural generated world, that will be part of the game play had to be made for D&SS to happen. You shouldn't let yourself be fooled by the simple looking style of the map, that it was only little work.

The elaborate sales and contests and events they have. It's a small team working on this game. I don't care what any one says working on these events has to be taking time and resources away from the game. And if they are not, what are these people who work on the events doing when their is no event to work on?

Leaving aside how much time or not they have to invest in these events... That's how they get the money to continue the project. Basically if you're saying "Stop these events" you mean to stop the development of the game ultimately.

And to be honest, the maps were part of an elaborate event to raise money and probably a big reason they did make them so much more over the top than they needed to be. You supporters can't be crying about them having a small team then support them using the limited resources they do have on the events they do. Of course the amount of effort they put into the events help bring in more money but at some point it starts to look like they are putting more effort into raising money than working on the game.

How are the maps only part of a money raising event? How would you imagine playing the game without a map? As you can play as a count / duke / king, D&SS is a key feature to select your domain (the name somehow gives it away). A lot of people were waiting for that.

How they are continually as surprised as we are a release dosn't work on release.

They can't even release their money making events without a glitch. Which by the way can you name one thing they did release that we can actually interact with that wasn't somehow related to raising money?

Well, I understand they are surprised. Wouldn't be a good sign if an event had a problem and they were already expecting it not to work... Don't understand your point here.

They keep saying they are looking at investors yet that never seems to happen. I have been hearing this about the investors since I have been here. To me the reason is obvious. They don't have anything viable to show them.

As far as I know, only an investor that will not force them to stray off their path of development will be a possibility. If you think this is easy to find, you're wrong.

That whole deal with Spatial OS has always seemed so odd to me. One second Caspian has a deal to use it to make the game AND to help port Spatial to the UNREAL engine. Then poof, just like that, no more deal. All he did was talk about how much faster Spatial would make the game development. Then when the deal fell through, "oh Spatial was no big deal. We can still get the game done on time without it." And here we are what 4 years later and we still have nothing.

Thats when it first really occurred to me I was having smoke blown up my butt. Either Spatial was super important or it wasn't. You can't have it both ways. He was either over hyping Spatial as to COE or undervaluing it when he lost the deal. Then you just start to notice things they say and some inconsistencies between what was said before and what is said now.

Spatial OS was a very good opportunity that did not work out. Don't you think you exaggerate this a little bit? It's not always only black & white.

OK, this next part is just a strong suspicion on my part. I am not accusing COE of doing this but I suspect they are. You guys have to make up your own minds. But it is a big reason I have lost trust in what they tell me. For some this may be no big deal and thats cool. Just judge for yourselves.

I have a program called Daz 3d. Google it. It's widely used all over. This program allows me to make pictures and videos similar to the quality of my avatar and much better as I am no artist. Lets just say the early promo videos and screenshots of COE look suspiciously similar to many of the things I can make with the Daz program. That whole video about walking in increasing snowfall too looks like it was made with Daz. I have a add on that looks just like the early castle pictures shown in the media section here. COE Castle You can change the colors by using shaders and different lighting. This just looks super similar to me to the early media things here. And the characters look strikingly similar to the ones available for Daz. Just go to their main store page and look.

If the early screenshots and videos were made with Daz I feel it's misleading to NOT put them under the conceptual tittle because if they were made with Daz the developers didn't actually make it for this game. The Daz developers did and COE just used the Daz program to show us what they want the game to look like conceptually. I know I for one saw those screenshots and videos and was very impressed by them because I thought it was something the COE developers had made from scratch. Now that I have the Daz program and am making my own scenes and yes finally animations, lets just say I am less impressed and am now worried the game will look NOTHING at all like the original media footage but more similar to the "shiny" footage we get. And this fully explains why the screenshots and videos look as if they have gotten worse over the years. They are now actually making them themselves and not using Daz as I suspect they did previously.

Now IF the early screen shots and possibly the screenshots of what the races will look like are made with Daz and not actually the developers, don't you ask yourself what-else are the developers stretching the truth with?

So you see with me it is not just that they are so slow making things. It's all this other stuff and more that makes me worry. It's the ever increasing feeling we are being misled on some core game elements.

So... I'm back from hospital. After reading this I facepalmed so hard I needed medical treatment.

What I take from the last quote block is:

  • You like conspiracy theories...
  • You don't understand why they use the low poly client at this point...

I'll try and stay constructive by saying something positive as well:

  • You have a very lively imagination

I see you're a backer and that you are frustrated with the progress, but I don't see much value in a speculative, negatively one-sided post. (Which may be the reason why my reply is very one-sided as well).

Swabien - 1 month ago
@Sparrow:

@Sparrow

Well said. Red redemption took over 7 years to make and it's smaller game compared to this. Star Citizen has been open to it's backers and in the making for 7 years now and still in process.

People with no patience and high expectations with little to no real knowledge of game development can't and will most likely never understand what goes into making a game of this proportion.

Kudos to Southbound, You guys keep plugging away at it, I know it's frustrating at times and we rooting for you. Stay your course, it'll happen :)

Kyleran - 1 month ago
@Swabien:

Posted By Swabien at 4:51 PM - Sun Jan 12 2020

@Sparrow

Well said. Red redemption took over 7 years to make and it's smaller game compared to this. Star Citizen has been open to it's backers and in the making for 7 years now and still in process.

People with no patience and high expectations with little to no real knowledge of game development can't and will most likely never understand what goes into making a game of this proportion.

Kudos to Southbound, You guys keep plugging away at it, I know it's frustrating at times and we rooting for you. Stay your course, it'll happen :)

Think carefully about your first paragraph. RD2, a "smaller" game than COE took 7 years to make, despite having an experienced team and was well funded from the start.

So you are saying COE will likely take 12 to 14 years?

I always wonder when people compare COE to other efforts such as SC, $250M plus budget, over 500 employees in 4 or 5 studios worldwide, and looking like it very much could take 10 years to fully launch.

In the case of COE, somethings gotta give....

Dleatherus - 1 month ago
@Swabien:

Posted By Swabien at 1:51 PM - Sun Jan 12 2020

@Sparrow

Well said. Red redemption took over 7 years to make and it's smaller game compared to this. Star Citizen has been open to it's backers and in the making for 7 years now and still in process.

People with no patience and high expectations with little to no real knowledge of game development can't and will most likely never understand what goes into making a game of this proportion.

Kudos to Southbound, You guys keep plugging away at it, I know it's frustrating at times and we rooting for you. Stay your course, it'll happen :)

patience for a game's development timeline i have plenty of, having been a part of many a prelaunch community during my 20+ year 'career' following and playing mmo's

what i don't have tolerance for is intentional, repetitive and misleading overpromising and underdelivering when in looking back it is very clear in many cases that there was no possibility for the studio to deliver on its expectations (note that it is not the players who had high expectations, it is the studio that set those high expectations themselves), yet those expectations were allowed to be the current state of where we were in development until sometimes just a day or two away from the launch or reveal of a particular step

to me this is the very opposite of the much touted transparency (i don't confuse transparency with frequency of communication which they do accomplish)

i hope 2020 rings in an amazing year for us all, studio and community alike, and i look forward to the studio turning things around for the mindset of many of us through delivering on any expectations they themselves set

p,s, it's Soulbound not Southbound

HolyAvengerOne - 1 month ago
@Dleatherus:

Posted By Dleatherus at 7:21 PM - Sun Jan 12 2020

Posted By Swabien at 1:51 PM - Sun Jan 12 2020

@Sparrow

Well said. Red redemption took over 7 years to make and it's smaller game compared to this. Star Citizen has been open to it's backers and in the making for 7 years now and still in process.

People with no patience and high expectations with little to no real knowledge of game development can't and will most likely never understand what goes into making a game of this proportion.

Kudos to Southbound, You guys keep plugging away at it, I know it's frustrating at times and we rooting for you. Stay your course, it'll happen :)

patience for a game's development timeline i have plenty of, having been a part of many a prelaunch community during my 20+ year 'career' following and playing mmo's

what i don't have tolerance for is intentional, repetitive and misleading overpromising and underdelivering when in looking back it is very clear in many cases that there was no possibility for the studio to deliver on its expectations (note that it is not the players who had high expectations, it is the studio that set those high expectations themselves), yet those expectations were allowed to be the current state of where we were in development until sometimes just a day or two away from the launch or reveal of a particular step

to me this is the very opposite of the much touted transparency (i don't confuse transparency with frequency of communication which they do accomplish)

i hope 2020 rings in an amazing year for us all, studio and community alike, and i look forward to the studio turning things around for the mindset of many of us through delivering on any expectations they themselves set

p,s, it's Soulbound not Southbound

QFT

See, D, we do agree in the end ;)

HolyAvengerOne - 1 month ago
@HolyAvengerOne:

Posted By HolyAvengerOne at 10:11 PM - Mon Jan 13 2020

Posted By Dleatherus at 7:21 PM - Sun Jan 12 2020

p,s, it's Soulbound not Southbound

Ahh, now come to think of it, maybe they just meant that it's all going south? Idk.

Ibenholt - 1 month ago
@Dleatherus:

Posted By Dleatherus at 01:21 AM - Mon Jan 13 2020

patience for a game's development timeline i have plenty of, having been a part of many a prelaunch community during my 20+ year 'career' following and playing mmo's

what i don't have tolerance for is intentional...

Yeah I shortned it down not to use too much thread space just to say. Right there with you D and hopefully the new bloods can help correct some of these past mistakes.

Luciver - 1 month ago

I find it funny that people spend more time on here bitching about the time it is taking for the game to be made than actually doing other things productive in their lives while they wait.. Christ I’m at work 12.5 hours out of the day and just periodically check to see the progress but have not once bitched at the delay.

What it does remind me though is of “the customer is always right” policy. Well guess what for those “customers” who have it in their heads that you can get a steak well done in less than 5 minutes and it’s going to taste good, you’ve got rocks in your heads...

Games and food take time to prepare. You spent money, good for you, now wait for your bloody food/game in silence so that the chef/game devs can give you what you want.

Dominus Satanus - 1 month ago
@Luciver:

Luciver,

I couldn't have said it better myself. Well done!

Regards

Drudge - 1 month ago
@Luciver:

Posted By Luciver at 9:17 PM - Mon Jan 06 2020

I find it funny that people spend more time on here bitching about the time it is taking for the game to be made than actually doing other things productive in their lives while they wait.. Christ I’m at work 12.5 hours out of the day and just periodically check to see the progress but have not once bitched at the delay.

What it does remind me though is of “the customer is always right” policy. Well guess what for those “customers” who have it in their heads that you can get a steak well done in less than 5 minutes and it’s going to taste good, you’ve got rocks in your heads...

Games and food take time to prepare. You spent money, good for you, now wait for your bloody food/game in silence so that the chef/game devs can give you what you want.

The Chef told me he was targeting to have my food ready, 100% fully prepared by the end of 2017. I figured that was quick but what the heck, He's the Chef right? So then he later changed it to 2019 and I thought that was better. But now it's 2020 and I not only don't have my dinner fully prepared, but I haven't even gotten to the appetizer yet, and now the Chef has told us he doesn't know when it will be ready.

So maybe just worry about you and let other people worry about whatever they want? Everyone has different needs and tolerances. Let's respect the fact that we all are different.

Takeda_Shinukage - 1 month ago
@Luciver:

Posted By Luciver at 9:17 PM - Mon Jan 06 2020

Games and food take time to prepare. You spent money, good for you, now wait for your bloody food/game in silence so that the chef/game devs can give you what you want.

Ironic how you use this chef analogy when people don't quietly take their food estimate being off by over 250% in a restaurant setting either. Not only did they overshoot your main dish by 250%, your drink was late by 20m. Your appetizer was late 35m then when your main dish was finally ready, it got spilled and they are starting all over. A world where this doesn't get a complaint from the customer doesn't exist.

jaspurc - 1 month ago

Some of you sound just like the impatient people I deal with every day in the emergency room. Caspian does not have 30 million dollars and 20 dev teams. They are a start up game company. They are pioneering some new game concepts. Its going to take time to get things right. when you invest in a startup you have to be willing to take risks and have a ton of patience for both mistakes that will happen and time changes on project timelines. This is like my 5th game that I have helped back since 1996. I think Caspian and dev team are doing a good job. It is true that if you are on discord you will be updated on the latest. I frequent the channel. Just be patient please folks.

AlphaWolfofthepack - 1 month ago
@jaspurc:

Posted By jaspurc at 10:36 AM - Mon Jan 06 2020

Some of you sound just like the impatient people I deal with every day in the emergency room. Caspian does not have 30 million dollars and 20 dev teams. They are a start up game company. They are pioneering some new game concepts. Its going to take time to get things right. when you invest in a startup you have to be willing to take risks and have a ton of patience for both mistakes that will happen and time changes on project timelines. This is like my 5th game that I have helped back since 1996. I think Caspian and dev team are doing a good job. It is true that if you are on discord you will be updated on the latest. I frequent the channel. Just be patient please folks.

I think the problem with your post is that he claimed he only needed 1 million and he claimed he would have something playable many times and didn't . It is basically like someone coming in saying BUT IM REALLY SICK! for the 30th time and you going no dude i told you you aren't sick. Yet they still come back insisting that they are sick. You out of the kindness of your heart give them cab money home and some money for a sugar pill. Then they go this will cure me and come back the next week. He keeps insisting there is something yet there is nothing to show for it.

Takeda_Shinukage - 1 month ago
@jaspurc:

Posted By jaspurc at 11:36 AM - Mon Jan 06 2020

Some of you sound just like the impatient people I deal with every day in the emergency room. Caspian does not have 30 million dollars and 20 dev teams. They are a start up game company. They are pioneering some new game concepts. Its going to take time to get things right. when you invest in a startup you have to be willing to take risks and have a ton of patience for both mistakes that will happen and time changes on project timelines. This is like my 5th game that I have helped back since 1996. I think Caspian and dev team are doing a good job. It is true that if you are on discord you will be updated on the latest. I frequent the channel. Just be patient please folks.

You talk about their finite resources but then also urge everyone to be patient when those things kind of contradict each other. Every week of development is a week of company upkeep being paid. Water, Electric, Insurances, Payroll, etc. Their team at one point even after they started full development honestly thought the game would be done right now. That means the next four to five years of development weren't in the original budget.

In an age where indie companies that want to do big and wonderful things are known to sell out under this exact kind of pressure, the concern of the time-frame of their development is completely valid. Especially when almost every single delay is just them shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly. It's not a "it couldn't have been helped" situation. I would put a large sum of money that over half of their delays would be either avoided completely or shortened by actually using the test group that gave them money to test features since almost every delay has either been caused by a lack of large scale testing or someone finding an exploit. All catchable by the EA team. Avoidable.

RedDoggybone - 1 month ago
@jaspurc:

Posted By jaspurc at 11:36 AM - Mon Jan 06 2020

Some of you sound just like the impatient people I deal with every day in the emergency room. Caspian does not have 30 million dollars and 20 dev teams. They are a start up game company. They are pioneering some new game concepts. Its going to take time to get things right. when you invest in a startup you have to be willing to take risks and have a ton of patience for both mistakes that will happen and time changes on project timelines. This is like my 5th game that I have helped back since 1996. I think Caspian and dev team are doing a good job. It is true that if you are on discord you will be updated on the latest. I frequent the channel. Just be patient please folks.

To be honest with you I would agree with you except for one thing. It is not that the game is taking so long that has my panties all bunched up in a knot. It's the fact that they keep making promises and predictions on releases and they have not got one right. And not even close to getting it right. At some point any sane person has to wonder what else are they not getting right? How many times have they started in one direction only to change course and possibly scratch all the work they have done previously? Look at all the things promised and we have seen very few of them come to fruition. People who still support the game whole heartily like yourself keep saying things like they are pioneering new things. With their track record it is very hard to believe they can actually achieve these new things. How many times have we been weeks or even days away from a promised release only for them to tell us they aren't doing that any more at the last second. And you wonder why our confidence has eroded?

Corvinusx - 1 month ago

"Do not try and hope for a game. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no game. Then you'll see, that it is not the studio that steals your money, it is only yourself giving them your money"

RedDoggybone - 1 month ago
@Corvinusx:

Posted By Corvinusx at 08:12 AM - Mon Jan 06 2020

"Do not try and hope for a game. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no game. Then you'll see, that it is not the studio that steals your money, it is only yourself giving them your money"

These posts really piss me off! Of course there is a game!

WE ARE PLAYING IT RIGHT NOW AND MOST JUST DON'T REALIZE IT. AND CASPIAN IS WINNING.

Melkar - 1 month ago
@RedDoggybone:

Posted By RedDoggybone at 08:43 AM - Mon Jan 06 2020

Posted By Corvinusx at 08:12 AM - Mon Jan 06 2020

"Do not try and hope for a game. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no game. Then you'll see, that it is not the studio that steals your money, it is only yourself giving them your money"

These posts really piss me off! Of course there is a game!

WE ARE PLAYING IT RIGHT NOW AND MOST JUST DON'T REALIZE IT. AND CASPIAN IS WINNING.

"I'm going to be honest with you. I hate this studio, this team, this game, this vaporware, whatever you want to call it. I can't stand it any longer. It's the progress, if there is such a thing. I feel dissapointed by it. I can hear their promises, and every time I do I fear that I have somehow been infected by it. It's repulsive! Isn't it? I must get out of this dance of dynasties. I must get free, and in this community is the key, my key!"

Ibenholt - 1 month ago
@RedDoggybone:

Posted By RedDoggybone at 3:43 PM - Mon Jan 06 2020

WE ARE PLAYING IT RIGHT NOW AND MOST JUST DON'T REALIZE IT. AND CASPIAN IS WINNING.

Oh how sweet and my first reaction was, LMFAO

No seriously, from where I am standing it seems more that Caspian is loosing. The Caspian I remember from back in 2015 is some roads from the Caspian I have experienced lately, also from what I hear from others.

My hope is that Kain can do some good and that Snipe keeps up them lovelies... If you wonder, then I am talking the Shinies.

Here's to the next forum update from Kain, CHEERS!!!

sparrows - 1 month ago

I hope everyone had a good holiday,and got some well deserved rest "devs". let's get back to the grind and open domain, settlement selections for those of us that would like to choose, then move forward into game play.

Pendulum - 1 month ago

The 'silence' (lol) is because they're human beings enjoying the holidays with family and friends. Pipe down, hold your horses, be reasonable.

The Zectorian - 1 month ago
@Pendulum:

I agree. Let them have lives. I want a game that is done and amazing. Not the half-bake abomination that we will get if they are rush. Like just look at No Man's Sky.

Melkar - 1 month ago

Thats the thing they took this event down 13 days ago. No updates, no posts since then. Nothing. Just leaving the community hanging in flux while whatever is happening behind the scenes goes on. Which leaves us to talk about the problems, bugs, etc.

They don't have unlimited time nor a blank check to just sit there spinning their wheels for months to just sell off the remaining domains they wish to sell.

As time goes on the development of CoE is spiraling out of control with every delay and in this case spending an unknown time to fix a system that in the end does not matter at all in the grand scheme of things when they can just sell a set number of packs that do exactly the same thing without the whole circle jerk to fix something that at this point is a lost cause.

Not to mention the longer they take the more potential people will lose interest. The more people will keep seeing the cracks in the studio for something as stupid as this and the multiple false starts.

Silence is golden and there is no official anything going on since the 23rd of december. No annual chocolate traditions, nothing.

Time is off the essence here and the silence from SBS is quite telling and golden.

Gunnlang - 1 month ago
@Melkar:

Posted By Melkar at 09:38 AM - Mon Jan 06 2020

Thats the thing they took this event down 13 days ago. No updates, no posts since then. Nothing.

You are clearly looking in the wrong place. They have been active in discord. You don't go onto the forums for anything official or even up to date. Discord is the place to be!

Caspian said he finally got around to updating the release date from "last year" to "when it's ready". Progress at last!

Melkar - 1 month ago
@Gunnlang:

Posted By Gunnlang at 5:26 PM - Sun Jan 05 2020

Posted By Melkar at 09:38 AM - Mon Jan 06 2020

Thats the thing they took this event down 13 days ago. No updates, no posts since then. Nothing.

You are clearly looking in the wrong place. They have been active in discord. You don't go onto the forums for anything official or even up to date. Discord is the place to be!

Caspian said he finally got around to updating the release date from "last year" to "when it's ready". Progress at last!

I dont take anything that comes from the Unofficial Official plausable deniability channel as anything more than off hand comments that they flip flop on whenever it suits their cause. Until it hits the forums it isnt set in stone.

Sweet! Get ready for all those threads asking where's the game, why is there no longer a date. or when will CoE come out?

Roarer - 1 month ago
@Melkar:

Posted By Melkar - Jan 05 2020

Sweet! Get ready for all those threads asking where's the game, why is there no longer a date. or when will CoE come out?

We got plenty of those threads throughout every year. Not sure who isn't ready by now....

Taydon - 1 month ago

We keep discussing problems, bugs and fixes, ...and that’s all well and good. At the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter how long it takes. What matters is where the devs are willing to draw the line. At some point, when gameplay begins, we will inevitably point out a problem. They will either say that they will get right on it… Or they will say that it is supposed to be that way. That will be the defining factor in whether this game succeeds or fails.

Corvinusx - 1 month ago

MONEY GRAB You got us good all. Good job

lordsunrise - 1 month ago

The surprise is an actual game.

Tulloch - 1 month ago

so this is what it feels like to be a part of a train wreck

Mozh - 1 month ago

I have a feeling that all of these growing pains are going to be so worth it once the game eventually launches. It really does feel like we're part of the development process and we share in all the ups and downs. I've never been part of something like this before.

Barswain - 1 month ago
@Mozh:

Posted By Mozh at 4:04 PM - Wed Jan 01 2020

I have a feeling that all of these growing pains are going to be so worth it once the game eventually launches. It really does feel like we're part of the development process and we share in all the ups and downs. I've never been part of something like this before.

@Mozh what information or progress that you’ve seen is giving you that feeling? Just curious.. And as far as being apart of the development process I don’t know out of the 30+ early access games I’ve been apart of if any dev team has been less transparent with the status of a game.

RedDoggybone - 1 month ago
@Barswain:

Posted By Barswain at 5:54 PM - Wed Jan 01 2020

Posted By Mozh at 4:04 PM - Wed Jan 01 2020

I have a feeling that all of these growing pains are going to be so worth it once the game eventually launches. It really does feel like we're part of the development process and we share in all the ups and downs. I've never been part of something like this before.

@Mozh what information or progress that you’ve seen is giving you that feeling? Just curious.. And as far as being apart of the development process I don’t know out of the 30+ early access games I’ve been apart of if any dev team has been less transparent with the status of a game.

They started off well. Then the many missed release dates, dropped and replaced items gradually made them reconsider being so open . I actually agree with this new policy because constantly missing release dates and developmental course changes was doing way more harm than good. To me the problem is they are still prematurely announcing things that end up not being ready when they are supposed to be. So not only are we now getting less info. But somehow the info we are getting is still wrong. Lol.

@Barswain Not trying to be sarcastic in anyway but actually asking a legitimate question. Of the 30 + games you had early access to were they similar to this one with so many missed release dates and items so "surprisingly" broken when they were suppose to go live? I mean is this common what we are experiencing here?

I was part of EQ Landmark that started off as a possible money grab and became a blatant one when Sony sold it off. But they didn't miss not even close to this many dates. A nd things generally worked at release They promised far less but always delivered what they promised except the final game. While bland as hell the new Ultima game, sorry forgot its name, everything worked and came out on time. For far less money in my case and far less time for both games. By worked I mean you could log in and play each release. So why does nothing work or come out on time with this game? Not attacking. Just asking. Is there some reason? People keep saying this is common for early development games but in my limited experience it isn't. Not to this degree anyway.

Corvinius - 1 month ago

who knows

4mypeople - 1 month ago

is it gonna come out in 2020

Kyleran - 1 month ago
@4mypeople:

Posted By 4mypeople at 06:32 AM - Wed Jan 01 2020

is it gonna come out in 2020

The SOE? Sure, everything else is just a great unknown.

The best I see happening is getting to Alpha 1 at some point this year based on published evidence and information to date.

Kyleran - 1 month ago

@Drudge, yeah, I know, but directly posting inconvenient truths is not well appreciated by some residents here...

Perhaps parables would work better.

Happy New Year's everyone.

🍾✨🎆

AlphaWolfofthepack - 1 month ago
@Kyleran:

Posted By Kyleran at 3:46 PM - Tue Dec 31 2019

@Drudge, yeah, I know, but directly posting inconvenient truths is not well appreciated by some residents here...

Perhaps parables would work better.

Happy New Year's everyone.

🍾✨🎆

What about a poem?

Roses are red violets are blue What COE is doing is unethical And what the white knights defend seems to be to.

Dleatherus - 1 month ago

who knows - i know of more than one person who recently purchased based upon this outdated, inaccurate and misleading info that is inexcusably STILL accessed through the main splash page of the website:

"When will the game be finished?

Based on our velocity and projections, we expect a late 2019 launch. Alpha phases will begin in 2018, and Beta phases are expected to begin in 2019. We are also releasing several other early testing phases as early as Pre-Alpha, including VoxElyria and Kingdoms of Elyria"

Kyleran - 1 month ago
@Dleatherus:

Posted By Dleatherus at 07:59 AM - Tue Dec 31 2019

who knows - i know of more than one person who recently purchased based upon this outdated, inaccurate and misleading info that is inexcusably STILL accessed through the main splash page of the website:

"When will the game be finished?

Based on our velocity and projections, we expect a late 2019 launch. Alpha phases will begin in 2018, and Beta phases are expected to begin in 2019. We are also releasing several other early testing phases as early as Pre-Alpha, including VoxElyria and Kingdoms of Elyria"

It is extremely puzzling they continue to leave this page up despite knowing it's well out of date and has been for quite a while.

It's almost as if they are OK with people being misled who end up surprised after pledging there is no actual date when they'll get any sort of access.

No refunds either...convenient.

Drudge - 1 month ago
@Kyleran:

Posted By Kyleran at 2:34 PM - Tue Dec 31 2019

Posted By Dleatherus at 07:59 AM - Tue Dec 31 2019

who knows - i know of more than one person who recently purchased based upon this outdated, inaccurate and misleading info that is inexcusably STILL accessed through the main splash page of the website:

"When will the game be finished?

Based on our velocity and projections, we expect a late 2019 launch. Alpha phases will begin in 2018, and Beta phases are expected to begin in 2019. We are also releasing several other early testing phases as early as Pre-Alpha, including VoxElyria and Kingdoms of Elyria"

It is extremely puzzling they continue to leave this page up despite knowing it's well out of date and has been for quite a while.

It's almost as if they are OK with people being misled who end up surprised after pledging there is no actual date when they'll get any sort of access.

No refunds either...convenient.

It’s obviously intentional. They are aware of it and it literally would take seconds to deleted and/or replace with a TBD.

Zsiledifyshk - 1 month ago
@Dleatherus:

Life happens...do you not know life happens?

Gunnlang - 1 month ago

@Barswain

Basically everything you just listed is why they should have hold back. What information did they even back on? That's what I'm getting. So much crap is completely out of date. Discord isn't much better either.

Yet I'm also curious why they want a refund, what did they find out?

Barswain - 1 month ago

There are no refunds, that being said @Gunnlang which information should someone new reference? You state "surely you looked into the game before backing".....what should someone looking into the game trust? The website that says a projected 2019 launch? The unofficial official discord post? Third party websites because they knew about SoE launch before it was posted on the COE website? There is not one consistent place here, discord or anywhere that gives anyone a clear idea of where this project currently stands or where its going. Any of the selling point videos (jousting, parkour, ect) are all from the old engine that at this point is clear they scrapped and started over - review old parkour video vs new "unfinished" obstacle course video (not talking about graphics just true design). It is easier to figure out North Korea's weapons program over the current state of COE,

When they stated that 2019 was going to be the year of the storm they were right, this is a disaster.

At this point there is no apology or admission of screw up Kain(God bless his soul for trying), Caspain, Serp or anyone else at SBS can post that isnt just lip service. We weren't even expecting SoE before the end of the year and they still let us down. With one day left before the turn of the year we are still going to be let down again with no State of Elyria address. The only turnaround at this point is if they were to show a rough working client, not a release to play but even just a video to show they have something tangible besides concept art. I doubt that happens because with SBS track record; to own up to little to no progress aside from some art and a poorly built obstacle course would surely doom this game.

Corvinusx - 1 month ago

What is the refund policy?

Gunnlang - 1 month ago
@Corvinusx:

Posted By Corvinusx at 1:07 PM - Tue Dec 31 2019

What is the refund policy?

There isn't one. You can't get one.

Seeing as your account isn't even 2 months old, surely you looked into the game before backing.

HolyAvengerOne - 1 month ago

Posted By AshKain at

It’s been an interesting first week on the job.

-Kain

I hope you've talked with your predecessor and the why he isn't around any longer...

HolyAvengerOne - 1 month ago

shudders

So you can't build a website and you're building an MMO? Years and years later you still can't even put online something that's both rather mundane (concurrent website access with priority sequencing) AND solely aimed at putting more money to finish the damn game.

we are working to resolve the issues we uncovered, as well as build new unit tests to find any other bugs we might have missed or introduced. Yet, with just hours before the holidays there is insufficient time for us to do the necessary work

Unit testing, load testing... How come you still fail at that is beyond me. Years after the e-commerce site debacle. Maybe hire someone competent for the web part and ask Caspian to leave him do his thing? I can only envision "mismanagement" as an explanation at this point.

Primus Dedumo - 1 month ago

The issue isn’t really “there are unforeseen bugs” anymore. It’s more the fact that it’s now been the case on more than one launches. It just goes to show that the testing of the feature isn’t on the same level as the application real world, hence the problem isn’t the launch it’s the testing where it already went wrong.

Takeda_Shinukage - 1 month ago

When you have a giant group of people to test content but you refuse to use them at every turn and instead would seemingly prefer to botch every possible feature release with showstopping bugs and issues. /rant

Dleatherus - 1 month ago

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

Theres a difference in saying "We shouldn't" and "Stop"

You're free to continue if you'd like. I just don't think its a good idea to, so I myself am stopping. Have a wonderful night

AlphaWolfofthepack - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 8:17 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

Theres a difference in saying "We shouldn't" and "Stop"

You're free to continue if you'd like. I just don't think its a good idea to, so I myself am stopping. Have a wonderful night

I hope you have a good night as well. See ya.

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

I'm not. As I stated, it was ready according to only their testing.

There shouldn't be any dates until it is actually ready. Which will hopefully be after additional LARGE-SCALE testing.

We shouldn't continue this debate on this post as it is unnecessary and clogging the actual post.

AlphaWolfofthepack - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 8:09 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

I'm not. As I stated, it was ready according to only their testing.

There shouldn't be any dates until it is actually ready. Which will hopefully be after additional LARGE-SCALE testing.

We shouldn't continue this debate on this post as it is unnecessary and clogging the actual post.

So, because YOU are done talking about it everyone else is to? I am confused i thought the point of this was to have different sides talk. Others might want to jump in tomorrow to share their opinion. I feel this is a poor attempt at censorship. If you don't want to continue you are free to move on. You don't have to agree with us that's fine. We would be happy to continue this conversation without you.

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

I must have missed where that was my objective to help in this conversation.

I was simply saying that we shouldn't be getting any ETAs as someone would like.

AlphaWolfofthepack - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 8:00 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

I must have missed where that was my objective to help in this conversation.

I was simply saying that we shouldn't be getting any ETAs as someone would like.

You went into way more detail to use that as a reply.

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago
@AlphaWolfofthepack:

Posted By AlphaWolfofthepack at 7:03 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 8:00 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

I must have missed where that was my objective to help in this conversation.

I was simply saying that we shouldn't be getting any ETAs as someone would like.

You went into way more detail to use that as a reply.

Actually my original reply was only 1 sentence. The rest of it was a conversation with others commenting.

They wouldn't give an ETA because that would be a date that people would take as a set date for it to be released. So no dates

AlphaWolfofthepack - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 8:04 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

Posted By AlphaWolfofthepack at 7:03 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 8:00 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

I must have missed where that was my objective to help in this conversation.

I was simply saying that we shouldn't be getting any ETAs as someone would like.

You went into way more detail to use that as a reply.

Actually my original reply was only 1 sentence. The rest of it was a conversation with others commenting.

They wouldn't give an ETA because that would be a date that people would take as a set date for it to be released. So no dates

Right which means you expanded on your opinion. So, we are just saying that it wasn't ready. You continued to put input on that SAME TOPIC therefore. You can't just go back and boil it down to one sentence and ignore all the other details you added to that topic/conversation.

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

As I have stated already. It was "ready" after their testing. Those are bugs they obviously could not find themselves as it didnt say that for everyone.

Everything you play or interact with these days has bugs of some sort. Just because it wasn't 100% perfect, does not mean it was not ready.

And believe me, I am absolutely not doing this in "blind faith". There is a lot wrong and a lot that needs to be fixed and or adjusted or accounted for whatever you want to say it as. But like seriously, shit happens. Get over it. Just because I'm an ambassador doesnt mean that I can't have my own opinion on how things are.

rummil - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 7:26 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

As I have stated already. It was "ready" after their testing. Those are bugs they obviously could not find themselves as it didnt say that for everyone.

Everything you play or interact with these days has bugs of some sort. Just because it wasn't 100% perfect, does not mean it was not ready.

And believe me, I am absolutely not doing this in "blind faith". There is a lot wrong and a lot that needs to be fixed and or adjusted or accounted for whatever you want to say it as. But like seriously, shit happens. Get over it. Just because I'm an ambassador doesn't mean that I can't have my own opinion on how things are.

Looking at your posts, it feels like you are doing this in "blind faith". Do you even work in the tech field? if you don't, talk about blind faith....

Gunnlang - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 11:26 AM - Mon Dec 30 2019

And believe me, I am absolutely not doing this in "blind faith". There is a lot wrong and a lot that needs to be fixed and or adjusted or accounted for whatever you want to say it as. But like seriously, shit happens. Get over it. Just because I'm an ambassador doesnt mean that I can't have my own opinion on how things are.

You may not be meaning to come across that way, but you are 100% coming across like you have blind faith. Which really, doesn't help anything here.

AlphaWolfofthepack - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 6:26 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

As I have stated already. It was "ready" after their testing. Those are bugs they obviously could not find themselves as it didnt say that for everyone.

Everything you play or interact with these days has bugs of some sort. Just because it wasn't 100% perfect, does not mean it was not ready.

I am just curious. If i tell you that the food is ready to be served and you say yeah ok and wait. Then i come back out and say eh it wasn't to my liking i am going to have to start over(or fix the mistake) mistakes were made with that dish. Do you consider that food ready?

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

And you're entitled to your opinion ^.^

It was ready before, there were some bugs as is bugs in literally everything out there, and it wasn't ready for the large scale server load. Which is what requires the large scale testing. It was ready for their load because it wasn't the large scale. Take it as you will.

Anywho, done the debate as it clearly won't go anywhere and does not help this topic thread. Hope you guys had a wonderful christmas and heres to a great new years

Stelaphina - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 6:53 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

And you're entitled to your opinion ^.^

It was ready before, there were some bugs as is bugs in literally everything out there, and it wasn't ready for the large scale server load. Which is what requires the large scale testing. It was ready for their load because it wasn't the large scale. Take it as you will.

Anywho, done the debate as it clearly won't go anywhere and does not help this topic thread. Hope you guys had a wonderful christmas and heres to a great new years

How was it "ready" when if you attempted to purchase an open domain you received the message "you don't have a title" .... That has nothing to do with server load or a bug. Violet, seriously, if you want to maintain ANY credibility with this community you need to stop defending every faux pas the studio makes. I understand you are an ambassador, but that does not mean you lie to cover for the studio, you are just making yourself look bad.

Marovec - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 6:53 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

And you're entitled to your opinion ^.^

It was ready before, there were some bugs as is bugs in literally everything out there, and it wasn't ready for the large scale server load. Which is what requires the large scale testing. It was ready for their load because it wasn't the large scale. Take it as you will.

Anywho, done the debate as it clearly won't go anywhere and does not help this topic thread. Hope you guys had a wonderful christmas and heres to a great new years

I mean, I have to love you...

You are a living, breathing, example of blind faith. You will twist words to a mindboggling degree to avoid any possibility of admitting they made a mistake.

Dleatherus - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 3:53 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

And you're entitled to your opinion ^.^

It was ready before, there were some bugs as is bugs in literally everything out there, and it wasn't ready for the large scale server load. Which is what requires the large scale testing. It was ready for their load because it wasn't the large scale. Take it as you will.

Anywho, done the debate as it clearly won't go anywhere and does not help this topic thread. Hope you guys had a wonderful christmas and heres to a great new years

lulz

season's greetings to you also

HuldricFranconian - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 5:53 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

And you're entitled to your opinion ^.^

It was ready before, there were some bugs as is bugs in literally everything out there, and it wasn't ready for the large scale server load.

That would mean it wasn't ready or am I the only one who thinks that?

I mean, a bug so great that the product that they put out simply doesnt function seems not ready for public consumption.

Labbe - 1 month ago

I think trying to pretend that the studio is incapable of doing wrong or making mistakes is not the way to make progress.

Sbs isnt gonna lose my support, but this is the very next milestone after the dss debacle and this as well has been delayed. If it was ready and working it wouldnt have been delayed.

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

Exactly why there are posts saying that it needs that large scale Testing (;

Dleatherus - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 3:10 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

Exactly why there are posts saying that it needs that large scale Testing (;

Exactly why i am saying you are wrong when you state that it was ready after their testing

unless you believe that announcing a launch date for a product, having the product fail, state that it will be fixed soon, it breaks again, and then is completely recalled until further notice is your definition of "ready"

if it is i shall have to accept that - it doesn't fall within even the furthest boundaries of my definition of the term

@Labbe - I also am not going anywhere, and am an avid supporter of the project - heck we even named our guild in ArcheAge Unchained "Elyria" to try and help promote the project

Labbe - 1 month ago
@Dleatherus:

Posted By Dleatherus at 3:35 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

@Labbe - I also am not going anywhere, and am an avid supporter of the project - heck we even named our guild in ArcheAge Unchained "Elyria" to try and help promote the project.

Wasnt meaning to suggest you were if I gave that impression. :P

Dleatherus - 1 month ago
@Labbe:

Posted By Labbe at 3:47 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

Posted By Dleatherus at 3:35 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

@Labbe - I also am not going anywhere, and am an avid supporter of the project - heck we even named our guild in ArcheAge Unchained "Elyria" to try and help promote the project.

Wasnt meaning to suggest you were if I gave that impression. :P

not taken as such in the least

more that i was trying to convey that i am able to be a strong supporter of the project whilst acknowledging mistakes are made along the way

Dleatherus - 1 month ago

wouldn't the time to do that be BEFORE large scale release and not after?

and again, if it was ready after their testing, we wouldn't be sitting here in the forums having this discussion about it

you can play word games all you want, the product wasn't "ready" to be released - if it was it would have worked

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

It was ready after their testing. It required additional larger-scale testing. There's a difference.

Ineluki - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 09:57 AM - Mon Dec 30 2019

It was ready after their testing. It required additional larger-scale testing. There's a difference.

I'm as avid a supporter of the game as anyone here, but this is trying to put lipstick on a pig..

Dleatherus - 1 month ago

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 2:47 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

They said that because it was ready after their testing. This is a completely different situation that I don't want to turn into the DSS with delayed ETAs

i would beg to differ - it WASN'T ready after their testing

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

They said that because it was ready after their testing. This is a completely different situation that I don't want to turn into the DSS with delayed ETAs

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

They wouldn't give an ETA because that would be a date that people would take as a set date for it to be released. So no dates

Dleatherus - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 2:31 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

They wouldn't give an ETA because that would be a date that people would take as a set date for it to be released. So no dates

you mean like when they said Dec 18th?

Baron_DragonScales - 1 month ago

It is too bad there is no mention of a 'possible' ETA on the Fix, or if they intend to have a Plan "B" to help keep the ball rolling? Pure peculation would suggest that the Online Event will not see the light-of-day until the second week of the New Year...? But maybe this is in fact really good News? Maybe the primary focus at this point is on Game Development, and game Funding can take a back seat? (Yea right...) We'll just have to try and be patient. At least there are currently a myriad of AAA Game titles currently out there to focus on. Our Life in Elyria remains a vision yet to be made available to it's future Residents. "Happy New Year to All"

Melkar - 1 month ago

For an event that was supposed to go down right after the rest of the DSS stragglers picked, got delayed, months, was dead on arrival, and now has additional assembly required with an unknown ETA.

I would say that it is both delaying the game but also will require other coders to find and fix the bugs just to get it opperational to the point they can finally finish the event.

They could have just continued to sell packs after the first wave finished picking domains but instead they chose to spend time on SoE and continue to spend resources to finish fixing it and who knows if it will even work when they spit it back out to us.

They could have probably averted the whole fiasco caused by the initial launch of SoE in like 20 mins if they just sold packs and let people claim domains without all the BS. But here we are waiting till Jan/feb+ until something comes from the waste of time it's turned into beyond making SBS a laughing stock in the MMO community.

Caspian can wear all the hats but people are still dropping the ball wherever he isn't wearing them.

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

And up till now as well it has always been stated that this does not delay game progress by Serpentius because this is all done by the outreach team.

Just because Caspian helps doesn’t mean it’s delayed or halted.

Gunnlang - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 02:27 AM - Mon Dec 30 2019

Just because Caspian helps doesn’t mean it’s delayed or halted.

From a logic stand point it does mean just that. If Caspian is helping the design team and then has to switch over to the sales team. Then either his work stops or someone has to take over his work, thus their work stops. So somewhere along the chain, something is going at a slower pace.

It's much like how Caspian wanted to have the State of Elyria post out this year. But because the event fucked up, stopped writing that to have a look at those bugs. Cause and effect.

I'm confused how you think everything runs at the same speed, if people are wearing many different hates.

KalTheo - 1 month ago
@Gunnlang:

Posted By Gunnlang at 09:50 AM - Sun Dec 29 2019

I'm confused how you think everything runs at the same speed, if people are wearing many different hates.

Best Freudian Slip I'll see today!

Marovec - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 10:27 AM - Sun Dec 29 2019

And up till now as well it has always been stated that this does not delay game progress by Serpentius because this is all done by the outreach team.

Just because Caspian helps doesn’t mean it’s delayed or halted.

Well, there are the words, and there are the actions...

Also, I am pretty confident that SBS themselves have stated something to the effect of "We wanted to have X done/ready by now, but we had to push it back due to insert issue with an event" more than once.

You are, obviously, free to continue believing that it has no impact, but reality shows otherwise, IMO.

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago

Caspian wears various hats. But he’s been hiring people specifically so that it doesn’t halt if he needs to go do something else. Just because caspian is helping doesnt mean it’s stopping or delaying development. That is why they have various teams for this specific instance. Feel free to ask serp if you have any confusion.

They have hired various new outreach members as to not pull from the teams.

Marovec - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 10:20 AM - Sun Dec 29 2019

Caspian wears various hats. But he’s been hiring people specifically so that it doesn’t halt if he needs to go do something else. Just because caspian is helping doesnt mean it’s stopping or delaying development. That is why they have various teams for this specific instance. Feel free to ask serp if you have any confusion.

They have hired various new outreach members as to not pull from the teams.

You mean, the new hires that JUST happened?

Maybe they won't have an impact going forward (granted, best case, we won't have these issues going forward), but anything to do with new hires has nothing to do with everything up until now.

leSourCil - 1 month ago

Wow. I doubt this game will ever release. I feel like their are building tons of system (aka jousting) and non sense app instead of putting the ressources on the actual game. And everytime they release an event it goes wrong so they have to put even more ressources on it. Sounds like an infinite loop to me. This is my humble opinion. It's sad because I really wanted this game to happen.

Voodeux - 1 month ago
@leSourCil:

Posted By leSourCil at 07:14 AM - Sun Dec 29 2019

Wow. I doubt this game will ever release. I feel like their are building tons of system (aka jousting) and non sense app instead of putting the ressources on the actual game. And everytime they release an event it goes wrong so they have to put even more ressources on it. Sounds like an infinite loop to me. This is my humble opinion. It's sad because I really wanted this game to happen.

It's a good thing you're humble with that amount of bullshit on your first post

VioletWinterlynn - 1 month ago
@leSourCil:

Posted By leSourCil at 06:14 AM - Sun Dec 29 2019

Wow. I doubt this game will ever release. I feel like their are building tons of system (aka jousting) and non sense app instead of putting the ressources on the actual game. And everytime they release an event it goes wrong so they have to put even more ressources on it. Sounds like an infinite loop to me. This is my humble opinion. It's sad because I really wanted this game to happen.

I guess it’s a good thing they aren’t wasting time like that anymore and aren’t creating demos for things like pax (such as jousting) right? Also the game creation is not affected by them doing these website events as it is a completely separate team that works on and creates them (the outreach team) 🤗

Logain - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 3:22 PM - Sun Dec 29 2019

(...)the game creation is not affected by them doing these website events as it is a completely separate team that works on and creates them (the outreach team)(...)

Please correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't Caspian mentioned dedicating some of his time to help fixing issues with these events? And wouldn't cutting on these events allow for reducing the 'outreach team' due to a drastically lower workload, so that money could instead be used to hire additional developers for working on the game?

Don't get me wrong, I am well aware why they are taking this route (you need to invest money to make money), but that's a different argument and validation.

Edit: Sorry, Marovec was faster than me, didn't see his post until I had hit submit.

Marovec - 1 month ago
@VioletWinterlynn:

Posted By VioletWinterlynn at 09:22 AM - Sun Dec 29 2019

Posted By leSourCil at 06:14 AM - Sun Dec 29 2019

Wow. I doubt this game will ever release. I feel like their are building tons of system (aka jousting) and non sense app instead of putting the ressources on the actual game. And everytime they release an event it goes wrong so they have to put even more ressources on it. Sounds like an infinite loop to me. This is my humble opinion. It's sad because I really wanted this game to happen.

I guess it’s a good thing they aren’t wasting time like that anymore and aren’t creating demos for things like pax (such as jousting) right? Also the game creation is not affected by them doing these website events as it is a completely separate team that works on and creates them (the outreach team) 🤗

This fantasy that when something goes wrong with an event, it doesn't effect game development needs to end.

It's a small studio, people wear many hats, people get pulled from one thing to help fix another, morale is effected, communication is effected, project timelines are effected, interdependencies are effected...

Sure, the people creating assets probably are still plugging along, but to say "game creation isn't effected" is just delusional, and spreading a pie-in-the-sky, "everything is fine" message that is, frankly, downright misleading.

Amarria - 2 months ago

Kain!!! You are amazing! I'm so happy you have come aboard the SBS train to take some of this particular burden off of the studio. Thank you again for keeping us updated.

Don't get me wrong now... SBS was doing their best with the resources they had, but having more hands on deck has helped them tremendously.

Thanks for being apart of the SBS family!

Poldano - 2 months ago

Ash sounds like the man for the job.

switchblade - 2 months ago

nice i cant wait

Tarloch - 2 months ago

An update that posted to Discord #official-updates, the Community - Forums - News & Announcements as well as a posted link on the COE website home page. Bravo

Pendulum - 2 months ago

Nice and straight forward. Thank you.

Zeek_Halykr - 2 months ago
@Pendulum:

Posted By Pendulum at 01:26 AM - Wed Dec 25 2019

Nice and straight forward. Thank you.

But what caused the issue./.?

HuldricFranconian - 2 months ago

Posted By Primus Dedumo at 10:49 PM - Tue Dec 24 2019

Primus's Sixth County Name Choice:

Primus Dedumo - 2 months ago

Ahh well it's great to see that you found the time to reject my county name a fifth time!

Naughty_Virtue - 2 months ago
@Primus Dedumo:

lmao. RIP Primus name. You're not on Luna by chance are you? Blacksmith still deciding which kingdom i will live in.

Goros - 2 months ago

Well at least this message gives us clarity. And to be honest, this is also what I expected.

If the errors found are in the core of the whole Settlers of Elyria mechanism, it might require changes that have a huge risk of regression bugs. So they better take their time and do it right. I do hope though that besides units tests, you also write system and system integration tests and make sure that end-to-end everything is covered.

Ibenholt - 2 months ago

It is sad to yet again and again see the fail of an event. But as many have mentioned, we are so used to it by now.

Community status

There are those who have left the support for this game in the trashcan, others have gone into hybernation, some (like myself) swing by every now and then, and the last hangs out on the CoE Discord or forum close to daily. In the end as at least one has said. Most of us who are here, have one thing in common. We want this game!

The concern

Something is starting to make me feel like SbS is not in a healthy environment at the moment. And from listening to the winds it is nothing new as of lately. The birds do, however, also tell of slight potential betterment. So hopefully a new acquisition will turn out to be a benefit.

The thread feedback

Drop the pleasantries a bit, but all in all thank you for some concrete update, Kain, hope to get more of these from you instead of fillers and stories. I also have to agree with Khalma. Rethink your strategi for SoE.

Now go have some actual holidays, SbS. Sounds like ALL of you need it.

Khalma - 2 months ago

Given this event is getting put on pause due to the problems faced, I think it would be of more value to CoE and to community building to shelf SoE until after Alpha 1.

My reasoning for this:

  1. With the ability to purchase Mayor and Count titles prior to DSS there aren't as many around who are looking to purchase land during SoE as we would have had otherwise.

  2. With the release of Alpha 1, which will be the first major progress marker for the game, it can be used to bring in more people who haven't heard of the game, or are at current, too scared to invest.

  3. It will also give people plenty of time to work on finances as we have a good idea of the starting prices for land, there will be more people who can afford to upgrade.

Finlboss_Kypiq_Kween - 2 months ago

As a sign of goodwill after this...how about you just get rid of the FOMO inducing NPC claims altogether and hand-select a few interesting locations you deem "important or reserved for story purposes"?

Unfortunately, at this point, I can easily see the maps going back up and boom--it has to go on pause again because there was a hidden error in the algorithm and the npc's are doing weird things. They're already acting bonkers as it is. I've been seeing domains with no count that have the only town+ settlement claimed and countless counties that have had all their settlements claimed. It's not a particularly popular system and seems to cause a lot more trouble than it's worth.

Andromil - 2 months ago
@Finlboss_Kypiq_Kween:

Posted By FinlbossKypiqKween at 05:11 AM - Tue Dec 24 2019

.....the npc's are doing weird things. They're already acting bonkers as it is. I've been seeing domains with no count that have the only town+ settlement claimed and countless counties that have had all their settlements claimed. It's not a particularly popular system and seems to cause a lot more trouble than it's worth.

I have noticed that the lists of top and notable professions in some settlements have changed from what they were before! Some settlements now show the same list under both categories!!

Augustus_Aquila - 2 months ago

Stop winging guys go and eat and drink. Is Xmas for everyone.

CrossssoveR - 2 months ago

All this event crap sure tastes all bad. Many people will doubt about professionalism within the team and if they cant make the website to work how can they accomplish even more complicated stuff with the game itself, and how long that would take to reach any level of expectancy.

If some random people in community have better understanding on how to execute this kind of event it makes people questioning what the hell was SB thinking!? I suggest some of your employee to read all the feedback the community gives you and make point, discuss within your team and make notes. Its always better to communicate with the community and ask what people would want instead of trying to make "great surprise" and then finding out you failed to execute it properly.

SB should firstly test their website solution simulating it under the load and test thoroughly. If that is done then make advertisements of the upcoming event to get attention of new players on the internet, if you want to make it cheaper just make the artwork and maybe special website corner for the community to share.

Just my thoughts currently. Merry Christmas.

Fredef - 2 months ago

At least now I ll stop to focus my discord....

Take rest and learn from this. Technically but also for the community.

I pledge for the new soe and I already regret...

Jynelle - 2 months ago

I wish to extend my thanks to the entire team for all the hard work you all do. I hope your Holiday season is full of cheer, happiness and well being.

Happy Holidays

Zener Atlas - 2 months ago

I hate to say it but I felt like this will happen, I love this game and the ideals that this game will bring to the MMO or meow gaming world, but there were so many issues with this launch.

  1. The lack of ample notice, you need to tell people at least a week an advance before they will make a $1000 dollar purchase. I would suggest 2 weeks for the average person working an average job. You also need to get your community around when awesome stuff happens in your game. Furthermore, the discord is a large amount of your player base but not all of your player base a forum post and an email should have been done to inform everyone of the awesome things happening in Elyra. ( if you knew that your event was going to work... but since it didn't I guess it's good you didn't)

  2. After last year you said that you weren't going to release D&SS during the holidays yet the very next year on the very same sacred holiday you release this event.

  3. A 20-minute timer for deals!! well let me just hit that F5 button all night long... but the server can't handle everyone refreshing at one time... so it felt like you shot your self in the foot there.

  4. You guy made this release date you could have made this mid-February no one would really care as long as it was good but now 2 of my friends actively laugh at me because "I back a game who cant make a website" so trying to recruit just got ten times harder. this is after a failure of D&SS... and the other failures

p.s. I desperately want you to succeed trust me but if the only advertising you have is word of mouth and they are saying you can't make a website/game they won't back it right now most of your money if I had to guess is coming from the same people because of "the sunk cost fallacy" not because new people are joining. I love this game please learn from this and make a great game! Merry Christmas.

TDOB - 2 months ago
@Zener Atlas:

Posted By Zener Atlas at 9:45 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

I hate to say it but I felt like this will happen, I love this game and the ideals that this game will bring to the MMO or meow gaming world, but there were so many issues with this launch.

I have one to add to the pile: response to botting. The Searing Plague event was rife with automated purity-generation bots and had to be suspended for it. A similar situation happened with scraper bots causing performance issues during D&SS, and bot usage was, in Caspian's words, "strictly prohibited (...) I will ban you. I don't care who you are, your access level, or why you're running a bot. I'm done dealing with this stuff." (April 16th 2019, #official-updates channel)

Lo and behold, yesterday we get the news that there's "very clearly botting going on again", and that it's at least partially responsible (to my understanding) for the performance issues.

Draguta - 2 months ago
@TDOB:

Posted By TDOB at 7:36 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

Posted By Zener Atlas at 9:45 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

I hate to say it but I felt like this will happen, I love this game and the ideals that this game will bring to the MMO or meow gaming world, but there were so many issues with this launch.

I have one to add to the pile: response to botting. The Searing Plague event was rife with automated purity-generation bots and had to be suspended for it. A similar situation happened with scraper bots causing performance issues during D&SS, and bot usage was, in Caspian's words, "strictly prohibited (...) I will ban you. I don't care who you are, your access level, or why you're running a bot. I'm done dealing with this stuff." (April 16th 2019, #official-updates channel)

Lo and behold, yesterday we get the news that there's "very clearly botting going on again", and that it's at least partially responsible (to my understanding) for the performance issues.

This is true, and Caspian also make an announcement in #official-updates that those who botted this time around would also be banned.

Huntsmaster - 2 months ago
@Draguta:

Posted By Draguta at 8:13 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

Posted By TDOB at 7:36 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

Lo and behold, yesterday we get the news that there's "very clearly botting going on again", and that it's at least partially responsible (to my understanding) for the performance issues.

This is true, and Caspian also make an announcement in #official-updates that those who botted this time around would also be banned.

This is false.

(The only post specifically regarding bots in #official-updates was from Kain on 12/18, saying in effect “yep, there’s bots, and if they start causing problems we’ll take appropriate action”, which is frankly the tune I would expect from a seasoned developer and in stark contrast to the widespread bot-hatin’ that sustains the CoE community on event launch dates).

Kyleran - 2 months ago
@Huntsmaster:

Posted By Huntsmaster at 10:49 PM - Tue Dec 24 2019

Posted By Draguta at 8:13 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

Posted By TDOB at 7:36 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

Lo and behold, yesterday we get the news that there's "very clearly botting going on again", and that it's at least partially responsible (to my understanding) for the performance issues.

This is true, and Caspian also make an announcement in #official-updates that those who botted this time around would also be banned.

This is false.

(The only post specifically regarding bots in #official-updates was from Kain on 12/18, saying in effect “yep, there’s bots, and if they start causing problems we’ll take appropriate action”, which is frankly the tune I would expect from a seasoned developer and in stark contrast to the widespread bot-hatin’ that sustains the CoE community on event launch dates).

Besides, they really aren't able to stop the bots, so no point in vowing to do what can't be done.

Most likely bots are using throw away accounts which many players banked up for free during the Seering Plague.

SuraHP - 2 months ago
@Zener Atlas:

Posted By Zener Atlas at 9:45 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

I hate to say it but I felt like this will happen, I love this game and the ideals that this game will bring to the MMO or meow gaming world, but there were so many issues with this launch.

  1. The lack of ample notice, you need to tell people at least a week an advance before they will make a $1000 dollar purchase. I would suggest 2 weeks for the average person working an average job. You also need to get your community around when awesome stuff happens in your game. Furthermore, the discord is a large amount of your player base but not all of your player base a forum post and an email should have been done to inform everyone of the awesome things happening in Elyra. ( if you knew that your event was going to work... but since it didn't I guess it's good you didn't)

  2. After last year you said that you weren't going to release D&SS during the holidays yet the very next year on the very same sacred holiday you release this event.

  3. A 20-minute timer for deals!! well let me just hit that F5 button all night long... but the server can't handle everyone refreshing at one time... so it felt like you shot your self in the foot there.

  4. You guy made this release date you could have made this mid-February no one would really care as long as it was good but now 2 of my friends actively laugh at me because "I back a game who cant make a website" so trying to recruit just got ten times harder. this is after a failure of D&SS... and the other failures

p.s. I desperately want you to succeed trust me but if the only advertising you have is word of mouth and they are saying you can't make a website/game they won't back it right now most of your money if I had to guess is coming from the same people because of "the sunk cost fallacy" not because new people are joining. I love this game please learn from this and make a great game! Merry Christmas.

Aside from point One I totally agree, thanks for such a concise layout of the faults at present.

I have sunk a lot into this game and it is getting harder to refute naysayers at this point.

Khazad - 2 months ago

You are a refreshing addition to the dev team AshKain, hope you remain this open and concise in future posts.

Enjoy your holidays, sort this out in the new year with a new start, don't be worrying about these problems now, what's done is done. These problems will continue till management learn, it's not something for you to stress over.

To SBS in general, love your families and friends, relax, and have nice holidays so you can all come back ready for 2020.

Baldrin Hammerfist - 2 months ago

I like this Kain guy. Very professional. Soulbound needs to hire more people like this. Maybe after SoE an actual PR team is in order, just maybe?

Zyzax - 2 months ago

Thanks for the update, Kain. I'm sure everyone there is disappointed, as well, but we appreciate your efforts to deal with it, and to communicate directly about it.

Marovec - 2 months ago

Personally, I am glad they are putting it on pause until after the holidays.

Sareseras - 2 months ago

After all that I think it is a nice gesture to reset NPCs claimed domains like this, in a way giving players a headstart for more advantageous claims.

Still wonder how the NPCs are claiming, thinking that those settlements are originally owned by NPC and then taken over by players.

Count_Anatar - 2 months ago

Merry Christmas CoE Fans, heres two events for you to dOnAtE more money... also we gotta push DSS part $ to 2020 so technically we accomplished nothing this year.

And a happy new year...

RIP

Marovec - 2 months ago
@Count_Anatar:

Posted By Count_Anatar at 8:13 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

Merry Christmas CoE Fans, heres two events for you to dOnAtE more money... also we gotta push DSS part $ to 2020 so technically we accomplished nothing this year.

And a happy new year...

RIP

Technically, SoE is a separate event, so DSS was "technically" accomplished this year (in terms of what has been publicly shown, we don't know what they accomplished we haven't seen).

Hieronymus - 2 months ago

Thanks for the update, AshKain.

Despite the continued problems, I feel like there's finally somebody on the team that understands communication and the importance of it. I'm hopeful that means you also have experience managing software projects and can get things on a better footing.

Merry Christmas.

Melkar - 2 months ago
@Hieronymus:

Posted By Hieronymus at 7:10 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

Thanks for the update, AshKain.

Despite the continued problems, I feel like there's finally somebody on the team that understands communication and the importance of it. I'm hopeful that means you also have experience managing software projects and can get things on a better footing.

Merry Christmas.

I second this. Perhaps they are too good at their job. Give them a few more months they will fall into the company line just fine. (I kid, I kid)

Java1970 - 2 months ago

As much as I really, really want the studio and this game to succeed, I just can't see myself giving them anymore of my money.

Kriv Aldent - 2 months ago

D&SS, with each use has bugs. Counts had bugs... SoE has bugs... this is a trend. How does SBS expect me to believe that the mayor and count land management system will work when it's launched.

Learn from your mistakes.

I bet strongly that counts won't be able to rent parcels till 6 months after launch 2.0. Get your stuff together.

Oh and thanks for the special advent presents being super useful: Nut juice and candle sticks. Smh.

Melkar - 2 months ago

Why not just sell the mayor packs and count packs and be done with it? At least that system has been proven to work without fiddling with this system for weeks and wasting time and manpower after the holidays. This auction system is a cash grab and a dead end and a disgrace to the studio's reputation or what still remains of it.

You should just revert the changes, use the proven DSS system, sell the mayor, count, duke, or king packs and call it one. You can beat a dead horse and it might twich a couple times but its still a dead horse at the end of the day no matter how much you dissect it.

As president Nixon's head says in futurama "It's time to cut this turd loose".

There is so much more this time, money, and effort could have been spent on...

Aiji - 2 months ago
@Melkar:

No they should not "revert the changes". Its difficult to be fair in this situation obviously.... but it's definitely unfair if that happened to those who made it through the messiness.

Melkar - 2 months ago
@Aiji:

Posted By Ayji at 7:04 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

No they should not "revert the changes". Its difficult to be fair in this situation obviously.... but it's definitely unfair if that happened to those who made it through the messiness.

So to the 13ish people who actually somehow managed to purchased something during this trainwreck due to a shotty unfair advantage? What about all the rest of the people who would have purchased the domains before them that didnt have a chance?

Stundar - 2 months ago

how about when this "auction" is over you release some actual game-play footage and give us a indicator when we are able to have any playable feature like prelyria. That would be cool

Roarer - 2 months ago
@Stundar:

Posted By Stundar - Mon Dec 23 2019

how about when this "auction" is over you release some actual game-play footage and give us a indicator when we are able to have any playable feature like prelyria. That would be cool

I thought SoE were announced way too early, without sufficient testing. It would be better to stop pressuring SBS to give indicator for Prelyria, which is much more complex and much further away from completion.

Pasukaru - 2 months ago
@Stundar:

Posted By Stundar at 01:47 AM - Tue Dec 24 2019

how about when this "auction" is over you release some actual game-play footage and give us a indicator when we are able to have any playable feature like prelyria. That would be cool

I believe the studio decided against dropping dates pre-maturely. They'll let us know when they feel comfortable with releasing prelyria c;

Thelmund - 2 months ago

One day, we'll have one update / promised feature that works as intended, without having to take it down and work through issues for X more months.

One day.

Visarius - 2 months ago
@Thelmund:

Posted By Thelmund at 10:45 AM - Tue Dec 24 2019

One day, we'll have one update / promised feature that works as intended, without having to take it down and work through issues for X more months.

One day.

These issues will be pawned off after pretending to do a massive amount of work for at least 3 more years. Don't worry guys we are the storm.

Visarius - 2 months ago

COE Definition: when a tornado hits a septic tank.

Gunnlang - 2 months ago

Happy no one has to work through their holidays to fix this whole mess. But honestly, learn from this! Never plan to release something right when holidays are coming. Stop teasing on discord that "surprises" are coming.

I honestly doubt anyone would have overall cared if this didn't start until next year. Stop putting so much pressure on yourselves. Enjoy your holidays.

Pasukaru - 2 months ago
@Gunnlang:

I can only agree with Gunnlang's words - well said!

I wish everyone a happy holiday and a great time with family and friends <3

Count_Anatar - 2 months ago

wE aRe ThE sToRm!

Caspian - 2019

Zeek_Halykr - 2 months ago

Site went down right after this was posted lmfao 2gb ram

Augustus_Aquila - 2 months ago

Happy Christmas and New year to all of you at SbS.

1mmaculateDeception - 2 months ago

-3% is three days worth of decrease. We are well beyond that now. Does that mean we will not get the full -45% decrease or does that mean the end date of this promotion will be extended further into February?

WickedT - 2 months ago

Why stop/restart it at 3% when it was announced today (5% day)? It was officially ticking down till this announcement :P

Server - 2 months ago

humm

Zeek_Halykr - 2 months ago

No apology? I mean, kudos for not working through the holidays but I think personally an apology is in order for launching without user-space testing that would uncover these obvious bugs.

HolyAvengerOne - 1 month ago
@Zeek_Halykr:

Posted By Zeek_Halykr at 7:26 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

No apology? I mean, kudos for not working through the holidays but I think personally an apology is in order for launching without user-space testing that would uncover these obvious bugs.

They can't afford to cut on dev time to apologize -- it would take too much time ;)

More seriously though, they should apologize to themselves first, they're shooting themselves in the foot... this is supposed to net them cash, not take them away from gamedev to do websites!!!

Faustes - 2 months ago
@Zeek_Halykr:

Posted By Zeek_Halykr at 4:26 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

No apology? I mean, kudos for not working through the holidays but I think personally an apology is in order for launching without user-space testing that would uncover these obvious bugs.

unfortunately too many people are blabber mouths, so sbs can't trust the community to test. the studio can't afford play testers for pay. So no testing to see if events can withstand player load till after initial launch the fact that they don't normally have problems that shut events down for weeks is more a testament to their skill than not.

Gunnlang - 2 months ago
@Faustes:

Posted By Faustes at 9:20 PM - Tue Dec 24 2019

unfortunately too many people are blabber mouths, so sbs can't trust the community to test. the studio can't afford play testers for pay. So no testing to see if events can withstand player load till after initial launch the fact that they don't normally have problems that shut events down for weeks is more a testament to their skill than not.

You mean apart from when the community, well EA group, that tested the maps? Stop talking shit.

Maddonach - 2 months ago
@Zeek_Halykr:

Posted By Zeek_Halykr at 7:26 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

No apology? I mean, kudos for not working through the holidays but I think personally an apology is in order for launching without user-space testing that would uncover these obvious bugs.

You don't know how SBS operates. It's release half-baked with errors or delay indefinitely. LUL

Reanon - 2 months ago
@Maddonach:

Posted By Maddonach at 10:18 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

Posted By Zeek_Halykr at 7:26 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

No apology? I mean, kudos for not working through the holidays but I think personally an apology is in order for launching without user-space testing that would uncover these obvious bugs.

You don't know how SBS operates. It's release half-baked with errors or delay indefinitely. LUL

If an apology were made, I am certain he would be crucified for it. It is a situation of damned if you do and damned if you don't. The fact is he said thank you and that is enough for me. AshKain comes across as genuine and his statement was very clear. I am willing to give SBS some slack. They are an indy company trying to make something that we players want but none of the big developers are willing to deliver. Instead, they, (the established game industry) prefer to give us themeparks that we don't want and endlessly take our cash by releasing redundant expansions upping the level caps, thereby forcing their subscribers into a never ending grind. Been there, done that and it is not what I am looking for in a game. Just my two cents on the subject :) Merry Christmas and happy holidays everyone.

Calysta - 2 months ago
@Zeek_Halykr:

Posted By Zeek_Halykr at 6:26 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

No apology? I mean, kudos for not working through the holidays but I think personally an apology is in order for launching without user-space testing that would uncover these obvious bugs.

Kain seems like a genuinely good guy.

Regarding apologies, there are some professionals who advocate for never saying sorry and saying thank you instead. They believe that saying sorry will instantly put people in a bad mood; whereas, saying thank you will put people in a good mood. And they want to put people in a good mood.

As a result, it is entirely possible that leaving out the word sorry was intentional but not malicious. The intent could have been to write as upbeat a post as possible.

Be that as it may, it is better to say sorry. People expect to hear the word sorry. I have seen thank you instead of sorry generate backlash because people expect to hear the word sorry. Afterall, we traditionally say sorry for a reason.

That said, you can't force someone to say sorry, but I also wouldn't automatically assume the worst just because it wasn't stated.

For reference - Rules to go by: Always say sorry. Always say thank you. Always say you're welcome (Do not say "No problem." I don't want to get sidetracked into why, so if you're curious pm me.) Always be kind.

Back to Kain, I get a good vibe from him. It's his first week in the office, and I hope he has a good run at SbS.

Zeek_Halykr - 2 months ago
@Calysta:

Posted By Calysta at 6:37 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

Posted By Zeek_Halykr at 6:26 PM - Mon Dec 23 2019

No apology? I mean, kudos for not working through the holidays but I think personally an apology is in order for launching without user-space testing that would uncover these obvious bugs.

Kain seems like a genuinely good guy.

Regarding apologies, there are some professionals who advocate for never saying sorry and saying thank you instead. They believe that saying sorry will instantly put people in a bad mood; whereas, saying thank you will put people in a good mood. And they want to put people in a good mood.

As a result, it is entirely possible that leaving out the word sorry was intentional but not malicious. The intent could have been to write as upbeat a post as possible.

Be that as it may, it is better to say sorry. People expect to hear the word sorry. I have seen thank you instead of sorry generate backlash because people expect to hear the word sorry. Afterall, we traditionally say sorry for a reason.

That said, you can't force someone to say sorry, but I also wouldn't automatically assume the worst just because it wasn't stated.

For reference - Rules to go by: Always say sorry. Always say thank you. Always say you're welcome (Do not say "No problem." I don't want to get sidetracked into why, so if you're curious pm me.) Always be kind.

Back to Kain, I get a good vibe from him. It's his first week in the office, and I hope he has a good run at SbS.

Good point.